Why is French in Québec so frowned upon?
We are North-Americans. Americans speak their own brand of English that is not British without being snobbed because it is not the Queen's English.
SInce the French aristocracy lost their heads a long time ago and given that we do not have role models anymore, do I have to pick up argot?
Politics, once more?
Languages are very sensitive to the issue.
We are North-Americans. Americans speak their own brand of English that is not British without being snobbed because it is not the Queen's English.
SInce the French aristocracy lost their heads a long time ago and given that we do not have role models anymore, do I have to pick up argot?
Politics, once more?
Languages are very sensitive to the issue.
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Montreal
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Unsu...
Re: Bad bad French
Thu, September 28, 2006 - 9:57 AMYou know what? I have no idea.
I don`t know that Québec French is so bad, just certain regions. Everywhere has a dialect though. I have a hard time understanding Newfies, no matter which official language they are speaking! And Joual, I just don`t get it, but for the most part, I see Québec French as simply a North American version. As you said, we don`t get snubbed for not speaking the Queens English over here. (Although, when I was in England, I noticed not many people there speak the Queens English either. Again, it varied very much from region to region. In fact, linguistically speaking, one could ALMOST compare Welsh to Newfanese.)
Personally, I enjoy the differences between the countries ways of speaking. It makes it fun. That`s my 2 cents.
Cheers!
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Re: Bad bad French
Thu, September 28, 2006 - 11:28 AMThat is an interresting thought! Why would you have to pick up Argot? Argot is the live language of a region! it is different from places to places! just pick up on whatever french you can pick up and enjoy practicing! if you learn argot from where you are well just have fun with it! There are other street language a popular one is Verlan ....like instead of saying Fou people say OUF...Have fun with that one too :)
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Re: Bad bad French
Fri, September 29, 2006 - 12:43 PMYou know what? I don't think that Québec's french is "frowned upon".
Being a Québécois living in so-called english Canada, I can tell that most canadians willing to learn french do not want to learn France's french. They want to speak canadian french.
It's only in some Paris circles that Québec's joual is snobbed.
Laissons les vomir la consonne-euh!
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Re: Bad bad French
Sat, September 30, 2006 - 6:59 PMI think the reality is that many French consider things that are different as being stupid, funny or both. -
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Re: Bad bad French
Sat, September 30, 2006 - 10:37 PM> I think the reality is that many French consider things that are different as being stupid, funny or both. I think the reality is that many French consider things that are different as being stupid, funny or both.
hide
Much like most people anywhere.
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Re: Bad bad French
Sun, October 1, 2006 - 8:34 PMEniad, you're stupid!
what does it have to do with french aristocracy??
if you had minimun of knowledge you would all know that quebecois is french how it was hundreds years ago in France.
we learn this in kindergarden, dont you? -
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Re: Bad bad French
Tue, October 10, 2006 - 3:53 PMhey Vlad, If YOU had a minimum of knowledge you would qui stating stupidities like facts.
Québécois french is not not old french: it's a regional idioma. A modern language.
Maybe, we do use some words that are not in use anymore in France, but we also use words that were invented here in America by canadian french.
We call the blown snow "poudrerie". When somebody tricks us we say we have been "enfirouapé" (a derivate from "in fur wrapped"). And we call the e-mails "courriels".
We have our own words. And, to tell the truth, I think that our french is evolving much faster that France's french which is crippled by the conservative Académie de la langue ffrançaise. -
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Re: Bad bad French
Wed, October 11, 2006 - 5:45 PMnow it is different. But during hundreds years the quebecois didnt evolve so much. It was resisting the english words invasion no? but that's good i think.
Now in France plenty of people are using english words and that is so ridiculous!!!. And the quebecois are showing us the example. My interpretation is that they have been resisting english for centuries but in France we dont know how to do that. The word "courriel" exists in France, few people were using it at the beginning and now almost nobody use it.
fortunately not all the french use english words, but please feel free to make fun of the one who do -
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Re: Bad bad French
Fri, October 13, 2006 - 2:26 PMFrench language started evolving in Quebec from the very beginning of the colony.
We invennted words to express realities that were inexistent in France. The word "poudrerie'" (in use since 1695, according to Le Robert) is a good example of that. We also inveted "frasil" another cold temperature related term.
We introduced words from native languages. "Carcajou", "atoca", "chicoutai", "ouendigo", "maskinongé" are just some of the many examples.
Of course we created a lot of words by mimicking the language of the English rulers. "Enfirouapé" (from "in fur wrapped"), "bécosse" (from "back house"), "pitoune" (from "happy town"), "clabord" from "clap-board". You name it.
That is not to mention all of the swares we invented. Swaring is definetely a cultural particularity of the Québécois. Ostie de câlisse de tabarnac de sacrament d'étole de crucifix sale!
And you have to ad all of the words we came-up with to avoid using english terms, particularly in the computer field. "Courriel" for "e-mail", "pourriel" for "junk mail", "gratuiciel" for "free-ware", "toile" for "Web", etc.
Oh, and of course you got all of the regional oddities such as "à cause?" for "why" in Lac-St-Jean or "ç't'affaire" for "indeed" in montréal.
Still, there are afew words that were instinct in France that we keep using. "Itou" for "as well", "froc" for "coat", "blonde" for "girlfirend", etc. But to state that Québécois speak some sort of a preserved ancient french is denying 400 years of cultural affirmation.
It saddens me that you might have learned such arrogant gossip in kindergarden. -
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Re: Bad bad French
Wed, October 18, 2006 - 9:41 PMI agree with Batiste. Maybe he was my professor of Canadian French Linguistics.
I am on the west coast of Canada wearing a *tuque* and drinking lum*pi*chuck which is all about excellent "bad bad french" French Canadians were the first white people here in the fur trade period. Our Chinook jargon has lots of Canadian French words in it and our English has a few too. Lots of us know what a tourtière is. We are so bad bad.
Only parisians are good good, but they won't open their mouths!
I've talked with friends' parents who are old franco-albertans whose vowels are amazing. <<J'allais>> sounds allmost like <<j'allas>> I think long ago in Quebec nobody used a uvular "R" or said <<moi>> like moua, but when media brought standard french across the water the intelligentia in montreal started creating the modern canadian pronunciation that i always hear on SRC.
www.radio-canada.ca/regions/...dex.shtml
I think Canadian French tongues are sexy hott too!!
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Re: Bad bad French
Sat, October 28, 2006 - 7:30 AMWhat does a "crucifix sale" actually means : do some Quebeckers
(or any North American Canadians still belonging to the christian belief {or faith} )
sell them crucifix at auctions or perhaps sometimes they "liquidate antiques" regardless of any "valeur égrégorienne rajoutée" .
"Easterners" vertebrates will remain a mystery to us in such a variable geometry of analytic arrays; but, at least , "computerese" nonetheless seems like a reliable "tenant-lieu-de" informational vector to join us all together in some magnetic patchwork way...
Ceci énoncé , nothwith§tanding, ÿ~aurait~il une " tRÎB[ü] " où l'on puisse multiloguer de "frenchy matters" en d'autres "Lingua Mater" que l'"anglo~kLaxon", Coaltar deDonnerWetter !?!?
Dans celle d'un Gilles Vigneault, d'une Brigitte Fontaine, d'un Florent Vollant ou d'un Guillaume Appolinaire , "for instance"?
[Désolé si j'ai l'heur de "sonner" sarcastique ou déjanté aux yeux de certains, ce n'est guère mon intention.
Ünd Güten HÂLL ' 0 ' Wéèn , èVéRÿBùNnÿ !
jÄn "foul~áC¢entéed" páQèt
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Re: Bad bad French
Sat, October 21, 2006 - 3:04 PMI agree that Canadian French is frowned upon... maybe not by Canadians, but by the majority of the world who would even have the opportunity to have an opinion on the matter. I say this based on my non-scientific observations in the US and abroad.
Why is it frowned upon? Maybe because how it sounds? If it sounded more refined and specific and had more of the "ahs" and "eues" and sexy "uuuhs" emphasized instead of the nasal sounds and drawled endings.... I bet it would be admired and copied in a jealous way.
Don't crucify me, it's my opinion.
I also think that Spanish from Spain sounds great, from Mexico is okay, but that place where they say "Jo" instead of "Yo" is silly.
I also think Portugeese sounds beautiful when sung in the Ipanema-song, but also kinda hick and nasally when spoken.
African french reminds me of a kids bouncy bounce structure... I would get tired pronouncing so many ups and downs.... Like a hard hike. I think it's funny and tiring. -
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Re: Bad bad French
Mon, October 23, 2006 - 1:38 PMWhen I hang out with my Manouche friends, we speak what some Parisians call "Fairground French"... It's an interesting mix of Roma words and Francais, usually with an Alsatian accent.
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Re: Bad bad French
Tue, October 24, 2006 - 1:52 PM--Here's a tale for you: when I was a wee lad of 12 my folks dumped me in Switzerland for a year to learn French. So guess who my teacher is? Yep, a Louisiana Cajun who wound up teaching us all some *very* weird stuff! Laissez les bon temps roulez! ;-)
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Re: Bad bad French
Fri, October 27, 2006 - 1:56 PMWell, I frowned quite a few times when I was in Montréal :-) Simply because I often didn't understand what people were telling me.
There I was, thinking that I spoke French fluently... It made me feel kind of stupid, really.
The thing that irritated me most was that T is often pronounced as TS.
When I spoke to the same person over some time, it got better, but it's still a challenge to me. -
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Re: Bad bad French
Fri, October 27, 2006 - 2:26 PMI was being sarcastic when I said Parisian is good French. I think it sounds terrible. I think it is silly that Parisian is accorded high prestige when it is so sloppily enunciated and collapses so many vowel distinctions. -
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Re: Bad bad French
Fri, October 27, 2006 - 4:38 PMI guess it's really subjective, isn't it? I happen to love Parisian. -
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Re: Bad bad French
Mon, November 6, 2006 - 4:00 AMMy humble opinion is that, while many people are familiar with Australian, American, and Indian English accents, Canadian French isn't as familiar to most of us.
The first time I heard Quebequois spoken, I though the person was trying to make a joke.
But probably I'd think the same thing of an Australian accent if I'd never heard one before.
Dialects and accents sound strange when they're unfamiliar.
I don't think there's anything inherently ugly in any language. But I confess Canadian French still sounds funny to me. -
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Re: Bad bad French
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 2:10 PMthen there are french-based pidgins and creoles around the world, notably haitian or mauritius. i like impure things like that. what is a pure language anyway? isnt it just a political thing? standard french developed because i^le de france became politically powerful, standard english because of the south midlands.
in canada we also have a cree-french creole "mischif" spoken in the me'tis communities of manitoba and saskatchewan. i like it that the verbs are basically cree and the nouns french. fun.
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Unsu...
Re: Bad bad French
Thu, November 9, 2006 - 2:48 PMTee hee hee! I love this post! I am still trying to learn the language, and I must say, when I was in school for it (6 months here, 2 years ago) I found it frustrating that in school were taught "international" french, which although everyone in Québec will understand you, is not really spoken. What I mean is, as French is a living language, and it changes continually, the proper by-the-book way to pronounce and enunciate is not followed to the T.
I remember the first time I heard "Jhz`pah" I was so confused, I asked my question 2 more times to the girl I was speaking with, in frustration, I asked her to tell me in English what she said. Apparently, this is a lazy form of "Je ne sais pas." All kinda run together. Very common in the younger crowd. So, while we had to speak proper in school, it was difficult out on the streets. Now I can say that while I am a looooooong way from being bilingual, I can get by, and I am really enjoying the learning curve.
At first all the varieties of French, and all the regional accents threw me for a loop, but now, I enjoy it. And, while I still have a hard time with Joual, I think if I watch enough shows with Patrick Huard in them, it will come to me too!
Salutations à tous!
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Re: Bad bad French
Fri, November 10, 2006 - 2:11 PMI live in the Northwest Territories were some Metis still speak michif.
I was surprized to realize I could hold a conversation with a michif speaking person quite easily just by speaking my "frowned upon" canadian french.
The Metis use "frette" for "cold" and "icitte" for "here". Moi itou!
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